It looks like some of the "peace protestors" don't appreciate competition in the marketplace of ideas, are threatening Protest Warrior, according to this interview with PW founder Kfir Alfia:
This week, the anarchists found out where we’re going to have our headquarters in the city--I always expected at least one person from their side infiltrating our organization. But now they are planning on doing something to us and threatening certain things on their Web sites ...Ah, you have to love the peace and understanding of the left!
Mr. Pig,
On of the key tools of the propagandist is to identify the most radical elements of the opposition and then paint them all with the same brush. How is it that the monolithic “left” has now come to be defined by this group of “protesters”?
This is the same kind of tripe that says, since a sizable number of racists vote republican, republicans are racist. I fear what a relatively small but active and vocal group is going to be doing in New York that will ultimately hurt the cause and misrepresent the true position on anyone from center to left.
As for the threats from the left against the right, are you really suggesting that that doesn’t happen the other way around as well? (if you really have never heard of such a thing I can give you a substantial reading list) I’m sure you’re not but the idea that anyone who would engage in tactics such as threats to person and property represents anything other then a non-mainstream fringe element is absurd.
Anyway thank you for bringing up the issue.
Posted by: Rick DeMent | August 17, 2004 at 10:57
Rick:
You have good points, but you have to realize that PW is set up to go against just those types of extremists you are talking about. Those that PW opposes are those who infiltrate the anti-war crowd for their own agendas.
See, PW believes in peaceful, non-violet protest and in freedom of speech. We believe in dissent. All we do is expose the hypocracy of those who, on the one hand, who pay lip service to those beliefs but on the other hand, do not want or allow anyone else to practice them.
It's interesting that PWers are not treated very well by some of the left. Members of our group have been kicked, spit on, had their toes stomped, their signs ripped up, been pushed in front of moving cars, and called "Facists" and worse. Even you would have to admit that those reactions are beyond the pale.
Posted by: Blind Pig | August 17, 2004 at 11:56
Mr. Pig,
Mr. Pig,
Sure I do, and all I really object to is the idea that these people are representative some how of the left in general. The notion that it's the left shutting down debate because of the actions of these people is what I reject. I don't call people fascists; in fact I pretty much shut down even mild name calling on my own site because I feel it's counter productive.
But I don’t control the anarchists any more then the right controls the abortion bombers or the people who beat up gays. Sure compared to the anarchists this right wing group in the article is very sober and thoughtful, but I could make the same comparison by sending a legitimate left of center group to a Klan rally. So what, we are comparing apples and oranges.
My worst fear is that the anarchists are going to go ballistic in New York and soil everyone on the left with the same shit they are slinging at the right. But these people are not the left; they don't represent legitimate liberal thought and as far as I'm concerned should be consigned to the scrap heap of irrelevance. But if they kick up wads of dirt in New York watch the so called “liberal” media eat it up because it will sell a ton of newspapers and pimple cream, far more then the sterile non-event of the convention could ever hope to sell.
Posted by: Rick DeMent | August 17, 2004 at 13:36
I am all for honest dialog and a reasonable way to settle our differences. But after seeing F9/11, the acceptance of the Democratic Party of Michael Moore, and the comparisons of the Republican Party to the Nazi regime,I don't really know if that is possible at this point.
I don't want to be associated with radical right wing groups like the Klan, white supremists groups, or radical right-wing militias. Those groups do conservatives a disservice and I totally reject them and their philosphies.
But, you will not see the Grand Dragon at the RNC (unless Senator Byrd sneaks in), as you saw Moore at the DNC. Until the Democrats reject the extremists of their party I don't see how anyone from the party can claim any kind of moral high ground.
Posted by: Blind Pig | August 18, 2004 at 07:21
Mr. Pig,
First of all what does Michael Moore have to do with this topic other then some vague connection with his personal politics?
But since you brought it up, this idea that Michael Moore is so far beyond the pale and should be shunned by the Democrats is kind of ridiculous. Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and people Like G. Gordon Liddy are routinely “embraced” by the right, they all show up at fund raisers, they are seen as celebrities by the right and they are every bit the propagandists that Moore is. Unless you honestly think that Moore is somehow “worse” then any of the other right wing bomb throwers then I really don’t understand all of the bloviating that surrounds Moore by the right, other then the understandable fact that a left winger is getting attention and their ox is being gored.
The Democratic Party “accepts” Moore in exactly the same way the Republicans “accept” Rush Limbaugh who does exactly what Moore did in his movie. There is no difference between the two and if you think that Rush has any value other then being an entertainer then you really need to check your partisan blinders. I don’t “embrace” Moore but there is as much lying and misreporting of the facts on the part of his detractors as they clam Moore made in his movie, if this were the case whey do almost all of them resort to misrepresenting the facts in his movie to make their points?
Yet somehow Moore is so much worse according to most on the right. Rush accused the president (Clinton) of going to war in Kosovo to cover up his domestic picadillos and he routinely intimated that he felt Clinton murdered Vince Foster, I listen to this guy every week (he is funny) but his veracity is no better or worse then Moore’s. Until the right starts disavowing their bomb throwers why should the left disavow there only one? I constantly amazed by the reaction of Moore by the Right, they are all fine with the fact that Rush spews out nothing but pure propaganda 3 hours every day, and Moore makes one movie that scores gold and they all go bat-shit.
BTW you’re not going to see any of the anti-globalization anarchists at a DNC meeting either and that is precisely my point, these people are not “mainstream”, and nether is the Klan which is why I brought them up. The people who these people are “fighting” are not a significant majority of left thinkers and do not represent mainstream liberal or left wing thought. They are vocal and active which is why they get so muck more coverage then they deserve because the “liberal” media knows a good television story when they see one. Just like the Michigan Militia these groups are not mainstream Republicans “Fighting” them, therefore is a waist of time. But it does give people the mistaken impression that these groups are somehow representative of the left in general; which is why it’s funny to see the “liberal” media give the PW people any space at all.
It would be like doing a story on someone infiltrating the Klan and trying to make it out like all right wingers are Klan members. This is what this article does to the left. And it’s what I object to.
Posted by: Rick DeMent | August 18, 2004 at 12:52
Not that I am a Limbaugh fan, so I really don't know what he is spewing out, or if he is spewing out, anything. So I don't know if you are straw manning me by making a one to one comparison from Limbaugh to Moore.
I do know I have seen a lot of positive press coverage of Moore in the mainstream media and the only things I have seen of Limbaugh are negative. Generally in the hate-filled spew vein that you are giving.
About Moore's movie, I have seen the thing for myself and don't have to depend on anybody to tell me what was wrong with the movie. I'll even admit the movie was mostly factual.
But the movie lacked in context for the facts and the conspiracy theories, mostly explained in baby talk, were laughable. I know, because they made me laugh, much to the annoyance of some of my fellow movie goers.
And hey, if Rush Limbaugh sits next to G.H.W. Bush at the RNC, let me know, as they I will admit that you might have a point about him. And if G.W. Bush starts using Ann Coulter's conspiracy theories in his speeches (As Kerry has done with Moore's), then you let me know too.
See, I don't really care about any of those right wingers, because I don't listen to them. I want to have my own opinions, not somebody elses.
About the article: Go to www.protestwarrior.com and watch some of the videos made by these guys. The only surprising thing is the constentcy of the reaction, all over the country, of those on the left to a little counter protesting. It's is quite vicious.
Posted by: Blind Pig | August 18, 2004 at 15:05