Kids for Executing Political Prisoners

My wife and I had just gotten the kids off to school this morning and were watching a bit of the news. On comes a commercial from Burlington Coat Factory, which features their line of kids clothes. The commercial quick cuts between several shots of happy, dancing kids wearing Burlington's great new kids fashions.

No big deal, until the cut to a teenager posing by sitting on the bars of a jail cell, in camo pants, wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt.

Are you kidding me? Pictures of this murderer are supposed to be the "in thing" for my kids to run around in. What's next, the Ted Bundy-B'Gosh line for kids?

Che Guevara was a Argentinean who served as Castro's chief political executioner after the Cuban Revolution in 1959. Try this article for a description of the Cuban political prisoner bloodbath lead by Guevara:

The first three months of the Cuban Revolution saw 568 firing squad executions. Even the New York Times admits it. The preceding "trials" shocked and nauseated all who witnessed them. They were shameless farces, sickening charades.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Burlington Coat Factory is evil. They do good things, such as helping to raise $100,000 for the USO and other solid fundraising for charities. Perhaps they have a buyer that is either ignorant, or who thinks, as some on the left do, that the Castro regime is the best thing since sliced bread.

I do, however, plan to call Burlington and object to their pushing t-shirts of political serial killers for kids and I invite you to do the same. Here is the contact information for the company:

Burlington Coat Factory
1830 Route 130
Burlington, NJ 08016
609-387-7800

Comments

[Paul Alcazar]

As a young boy (9 when the Cuban "Revolution" came to power) I lived the terror that the figure of "Che" Guevara brough to those that did not share his idea of how the "new" Communist man should behave. I personally witnessed (they were actually filmed and actually shown in theaters!) many of the mass executions, following mock trials, that "Che" perpetrated on those Cubans willing to defend their rights and freedoms.

To watch a teen age boy wearing a Che T- shirt in a Burlington Factory TV commercial is as offensive to me and the the Cuban-American community as parading around with a picture of O. Bin Laden.

As José Martí, the great Cuban independence patriot-poet-philosopher said: respect others, so you may earn their respect.

[Vladimir]

I must say, I object. Che Guevara was a great revolutionary and a great man in the history of communism. Yes, I a headstrong socialist, can say that he was involved in the deaths of many political prisoners, but you are dismissing a few facts. Firstly, the Cuban revolution was a war, and wars see casualties, not to mention Cuba is now all the better for it. Secondly, Che is an icon of revolutionary movements even if they aren't communists.

[Blind Pig]

Che was many things, but a warrior was not one of them. A warrior, for example, does not hold a kangaroo court and then shoot someone in the back of the head.

He was basically a scumbag with a license to kill.

[dll]

right on che was a clown

[Logan Darrow]

I'm going to wage a full scale expose on Burlington Coat Factories use of the Che t-shirt. It is outrageous that a company in America is promoting a communist murderer. They must be punished. Whoever is responsible and knowledgeable at BCF or their ad agency must be fired! If you have a videotape that shows the ad please contact me. I need a copy.

[Logan Darrow]

I'm going to wage a full scale expose on Burlington Coat Factories use of the Che t-shirt. It is outrageous that a company in America is promoting a communist murderer. They must be punished. Whoever is responsible and knowledgeable at BCF or their ad agency must be fired! If you have a videotape that shows the ad please contact me. I need a copy.

[Zaphod B.]

I'm glad I'm not alone in my long-term seething contempt for that groovy little fashion trend of Guevara's iconic mug seen on everything from t-shirts to lollipop wrappers.

I realize that 90% of the morons who wear that image are so utterly oblivious to history, philosophy, politics, even basic literacy that they can lay valid claim to a plea of ignorance, but my instant reaction to that image has always been in the form of the question "What - were they all out of 'Adolph'?"

I have the deepest gratitude to Mr. Felix Rodriguez for rounding up that monster and to the Bolivian government for ridding the planet of his noxious presence. I too will be venting toward this militantly unprincipled company, and will continue to get right in the face of every little pimply-faced dweeb I see marching around with that pig's face on his chest.

[Agustin Blazquez]

Burlington Coat Factory's Che t-shirt is as offensive to the memory of Che's executed victims at La Cabaña Fortress Prison in Havana and to Cuban Americans as a Hitler t-shirt would be to a Jew.

[Fred Hampton]

Question: How many Americans were driven into exile in 1776-1783?

Answer: Out of a population of 4 million whites 100,000 left for Cananda, England, and the West Indies. They went abroad bearing tales of the godless, barbaric revolutionaries who confiscated their property, tar and feathered and murdered their kinsmen. Those
who remained and refused to take an oath of allegiance to the new state governments were denied virtually all civil liberties. After the American Civil War, thousands more fled to South America and other points, again disturbed by the social upheaval. How much more is such an exodus to be expected following the Cuban Revolution? -- a true social revolution, giving rise to changes much more profound than anything in the American experience. How many more would have left the United States if 90 miles away lay the world's wealthiest nation welcoming their residence and promising all manner of benefits and rewards? How much more has Cuba the right to punish its traitors who are collaborating with the empire 90 miles away?

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Einstein.htm

http://www.killinghope.org/

[Fred Hampton]

Question: How many Americans were driven into exile in 1776-1783?

Answer: Out of a population of 4 million whites 100,000 left for Cananda, England, and the West Indies. They went abroad bearing tales of the godless, barbaric revolutionaries who confiscated their property, tar and feathered and murdered their kinsmen. Those
who remained and refused to take an oath of allegiance to the new state governments were denied virtually all civil liberties. After the American Civil War, thousands more fled to South America and other points, again disturbed by the social upheaval. How much more is such an exodus to be expected following the Cuban Revolution? -- a true social revolution, giving rise to changes much more profound than anything in the American experience. How many more would have left the United States if 90 miles away lay the world's wealthiest nation welcoming their residence and promising all manner of benefits and rewards? How much more has Cuba the right to punish its traitors who are collaborating with the empire 90 miles away?

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Einstein.htm

http://www.killinghope.org/

[Fred Hampton]

United Fruit Co.
by poet Pablo Neruda (Nobel Laureate) from Canto General

When the trumpet blared everything
on earth was prepared
and Jehova distributed the world
to Coca Cola Inc., Anaconda,
Ford Motors and other entities:
United Fruit Inc.
reserved for itself the juiciest,
the central seaboard of my land,
America's sweet waist.
It rebabtized its lands
the "Banana Republics,"
and upon the slumbering corpses,
upon the restless heroes
who conquered renown,
freedom, flags,
it established the comic opera:
it alienated self-destiny,
regaled Caesar's crowns,
unsheathed envy, attracted
the tyrannical reign of the flies:
Trujillo flies, Tacho flies,
Carías flies, Martínez flies,
Ubico flies, flies soaked
in humble blood and jam,
drunken flies that drone
over the common graves,
circus flies, clever flies
versed in tyranny.

Among the bloodthirsty flies
the Fruit Co. disembarks,
ravaging coffee and fruits
for its ships that spirit away
our submerged lands' treasures
like serving trays.

Meanwhile, in the seaports'
sugary abysses,
Indians collapsed, buried
in the morning mist:
a body rolls down, a nameless
thing, a fallen number,
a bunch of lifeless fruit
dumped in the rubbish heap.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/47/043.html

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/episodes/18/interviews/hunt/

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Einstein.htm

http://slate.msn.com/id/2107718

http://www.unitedfruit.org/chronology.html
http://w3.usf.edu/~lc/MOOs/cuba/martimon.htm

http://www.time.com/time/time100/heroes/profile/guevara01.html

http://www.killinghope.org/

http://www.adorfman.duke.edu/vaults/donald_duck/templteFrameset-5.htm

[Fred Hampton]

"If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-World War II American president would have been hanged." -- Noam Chomsky

To all the Americans on these boards who swear that their country is the greatest in the World, look outside your borders for the time it takes to read this post and see what your beloved country has done...

An open letter to the people of the United States, by Larry Mosqueda, Ph.D.

The Evergreen State College, September 15, 2001

Like all Americans, on Tuesday, 9-11, I was shocked and horrified to watch the WTC Twin Towers attacked by hijacked planes and collapse, resulting in the deaths of perhaps up to 10,000 innocent people.

I had not been that shocked and horrified since January 16, 1991, when then President Bush attacked Baghdad, and the rest of Iraq and began killing
200,000 people during that "war" (slaughter). This includes the infamous "highway of death" in the last days of the slaughter when U.S. pilots literally shot in the back retreating Iraqi civilians and soldiers. I continue to be horrified by the sanctions on Iraq, which have resulted in the death of over 1,000,000 Iraqis, including over 500,000 children, about whom former Secretary of State Madeline Allbright has stated that their deaths "are worth the cost".

Over the course of my life I have been shocked and horrified by a variety of U.S. governmental actions, such as the U.S. sponsored coup against democracy in Guatemala in 1954 which resulted in the deaths of over 120,000 Guatemalan peasants by U.S. installed dictatorships over the course of four decades.

Last Tuesday's events reminded me of the horror I felt when the U.S. overthrew the governments of the Dominican Republic in 1965 and helped to murder 3,000 people. And it reminded me of the shock I felt on [September 11] 1973 [emphasis mine], when the U.S. sponsored a coup in Chile against the democratic government of Salvador Allende and helped to murder another 3,000 people, including U.S. citizens.

Last Tuesday's events reminded me of the shock and horror I felt in 1965 when the U.S. sponsored a coup in Indonesia that resulted in the murder of over 800,000 people, and the subsequent slaughter in 1975 of over 250,000 innocent people in East Timor by the Indonesian regime with the direct complicity of President Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.

I was reminded of the shock and horror I felt during the U.S. sponsored terrorist contra war (the World Court declared the U.S. government a war criminal in 1984 for the mining of the harbors) against Nicaragua in the 1980s which resulted in the deaths of over 30,000 innocent people (or as the U.S. government used to call them before the term "collateral damage" was invented--"soft targets").

I was reminded of being horrified by the U.S. war against the people of El Salvador in the 1980s, which resulted in the brutal deaths of over 80,000 people, or "soft targets".

I was reminded of the shock and horror I felt during the U.S. sponsored terror war against the peoples of southern Africa (especially Angola) that began in the 1970's and continues to this day and has resulted in the deaths and mutilations of over 1,000,000. I was reminded of the shock and horror I felt as the U.S. invaded Panama over the Christmas season of 1989 and killed over 8,000 in an attempt to capture George H. W. Bush's CIA partner, now turned enemy, Manual Noriega.

I was reminded of the horror I felt when I learned about how the Shah of Iran was installed in a U.S. sponsored brutal coup that resulted in the deaths of over 70,000 Iranians from 1952-1979. And the continuing shock as I learned that the Ayatollah Khomani, who overthrew the Shah in 1979, and who was the U.S. public enemy for the decade of the 1980s, was also on the CIA payroll, while he was in exile in Paris in the 1970s.

I was reminded of the shock and horror that I felt as I learned about the how the U.S. has "manufactured consent" since 1948 for its support of Israel, to the exclusion of virtually any rights for the Palestinians in their native lands resulting in ever worsening day-to-day conditions for the people of Palestine. I was shocked as I learned about the hundreds of towns and villages that were literally wiped off the face of the earth in the early days of Israeli colonization. I was horrified in 1982 as the villagers of Sabra and Shatila were massacred by Israeli allies with direct Israeli complicity and direction. The untold thousands who died on that day match the scene of horror that we saw last Tuesday. But those scenes were not repeated over and over again on the national media to inflame the American public.

The events and images of last Tuesday have been appropriately compared to the horrific events and images of Lebanon in the 1980s with resulted in the deaths of tens of thousand of people, with no reference to the fact that the country that inflicted the terror on Lebanon was Israel, with U.S. backing. I still continue to be shocked at how mainstream commentators refer to "Israeli settlers" in the "occupied territories" with no sense of irony as they report on who are the aggressors in the region.

Of course, the largest and most shocking war crime of the second half of the
20th century was the U.S. assault on Indochina from 1954-1975, especially Vietnam, where over 4,000,000 people were bombed, napalmed, crushed, shot and individually "hands on" murdered in the "Phoenix Program" (this is where Oliver North got his start). Many U.S. Vietnam veterans were also victimized by this war and had the best of intentions, but the policy makers themselves knew the criminality of their actions and policies as revealed in their own words in "The Pentagon Papers," released by Daniel Ellsberg of the RAND Corporation. In 1974 Ellsberg noted that our Presidents from Truman to Nixon continually lied to the U.S. public about the purpose and conduct of the war. He has stated that, "It is a tribute to the American people that our leaders perceived that they had to lie to us, it is not a tribute to us that we were so easily misled."

I was continually shocked and horrified as the U.S. attacked and bombed with impunity the nation of Libya in the 1980s, including killing the infant daughter of Khadafi. I was shocked as the U.S. bombed and invaded Grenada in 1983. I was horrified by U.S. military and CIA actions in Somalia, Haiti, Afghanistan, Sudan, Brazil, Argentina, and Yugoslavia. The deaths in these actions ran into the hundreds of thousands.

The above list is by no means complete or comprehensive. It is merely a list that is easily accessible and not unknown, especially to the economic and intellectual elites. It has just been conveniently eliminated from the public discourse and public consciousness. And for the most part, the analysis that the U.S. actions have resulted in the deaths of primarily civilians (over
90%) is not unknown to these elites and policy makers. A conservative number for those who have been killed by U.S. terror and military action since World War II is 8,000,000 people. Repeat--8,000,000 people. This does not include the wounded, the imprisoned, the displaced, the refugees, etc. Martin Luther King, Jr. stated in 1967, during the Vietnam War, "My government is the world's leading purveyor of violence." Shocking and horrifying.

Nothing that I have written is meant to disparage or disrespect those who were victims and those who suffered death or the loss of a loved one during this week's events. It is not meant to "justify" any action by those who bombed the Twin Towers or the Pentagon. It is meant to put it in a context. If we believe that the actions were those of "madmen", they are "madmen" who are able to keep a secret for 2 years or more among over 100 people, as they trained to execute a complex plan. While not the acts of madmen, they are apparently the acts of "fanatics" who, depending on who they really are, can find real grievances, but whose actions are illegitimate.

Osama Bin Laden at this point has been accused by the media and the government of being the mastermind of Tuesday's bombings. Given the government's track record on lying to the America people, that should not be accepted as fact at this time. If indeed Bin Laden is the mastermind of this action, he is responsible for the deaths of perhaps 10,000 people-a shocking and horrible crime. Ed Herman in his book The Real Terror Network: Terrorism in Fact and Propaganda does not justify any terrorism but points out that states often engage in "wholesale" terror, while those whom governments define as "terrorist" engage is "retail" terrorism. While qualitatively the results are the same for the individual victims of terrorism, there is a clear quantitative difference. And as Herman and others point out, the seeds, the roots, of much of the "retail" terror are in fact found in the "wholesale" terror of states. Again this is not to justify, in any way, the actions of last Tuesday, but to put them in a context and suggest an explanation.

Perhaps most shocking and horrific, if indeed Bin Laden is the mastermind of Tuesday's actions; he has clearly had significant training in logistics, armaments, and military training, etc. by competent and expert military personnel. And indeed he has. During the 1980s, he was recruited, trained and funded by the CIA in Afghanistan to fight against the Russians. As long as he visited his terror on Russians and his enemies in Afghanistan, he was "our man" in that country.

The same is true of Saddam Hussein of Iraq, who was a CIA asset in Iraq during the 1980s. Hussein could gas his own people, repress the population, and invade his neighbor (Iran) as long as he did it with U.S. approval.

The same was true of Manuel Noriega of Panama, who was a contemporary and CIA partner of George H. W. Bush in the 1980s. Noriega's main crime for Bush, the father, was not that he dealt drugs (he did, but the U.S. and Bush knew this before 1989), but that Noriega was no longer going to cooperate in the ongoing U.S. terrorist contra war against Nicaragua. This information is not unknown or really controversial among elite policy makers. To repeat, this not to justify any of the actions of last Tuesday, but to put it in its horrifying context.

As shocking as the events of last Tuesday were, they are likely to generate even more horrific actions by the U.S. government that will add significantly to the 8,000,000 figure stated above. This response may well be qualitatively and quantitatively worst than the events of Tuesday. The New York Times headline of 9/14/01 states that, "Bush And Top Aides Proclaim Policy Of Ending States That Back Terror" as if that was a rational, measured, or even sane option. States that have been identified for possible elimination are "a number of Asian and African countries, like Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, and even Pakistan." This is beyond shocking and horrific- it is just as potentially suicidal, homicidal, and more insane than the hijackers themselves.

Also, qualitatively, these actions will be even worse than the original bombers if one accepts the mainstream premise that those involved are "madmen", "religious fanatics", or a "terrorist group." If so, they are acting as either individuals or as a small group. The U.S. actions may continue the homicidal policies of a few thousand elites for the past 50 years, involving both political parties.

The retail terror is that of desperate and sometime fanatical small groups and individuals who often have legitimate grievances, but engage in individual criminal and illegitimate activities; the wholesale terror is that of "rational" educated men where the pain, suffering, and deaths of millions of people are contemplated, planned, and too often, executed, for the purpose of furthering a nebulous concept called the "national interest". Space does not allow a full explanation of the elites Orwellian concept of the "national interest", but it can be summarized as the protection and expansion of hegemony and an imperial empire.

The American public is being prepared for war while being fed a continuous stream of shocking and horrific repeated images of Tuesday's events and heartfelt stories from the survivors and the loved ones of those who lost family members. These stories are real and should not be diminished. In fact, those who lost family members can be considered a representative sample of humanity of the 8,000,000 who have been lost previously. If we multiply by
800-1000 times the amount of pain, angst, and anger being currently felt by the American public, we might begin to understand how much of the rest of the world feels as they are continually victimized.

Some particularly poignant images are the heart wrenching public stories that we are seeing and hearing of family members with pictures and flyers searching for their loved ones. These images are virtually the same as those of the "Mothers of the Disappeared" who searched for their (primarily) adult children in places such as Argentina, where over 11,000 were "disappeared" in
1976-1982, again with U.S. approval. Just as the mothers of Argentina deserved our respect and compassion, so do the relatives of those who are searching for their relatives now. However we should not allow ourselves to be manipulated by the media and U.S. government into turning real grief and anger into a national policy of wholesale terror and genocide against innocent civilians in Asia and Africa. What we are seeing in military terms is called "softening the target." The target here is the American public and we are being ideologically and emotionally prepared for the slaughter that may commence soon.

None of the previously identified Asian and African countries are democracies, which means that the people of these countries have virtually no impact on developing the policies of their governments, even if we assume that these governments are complicit in Tuesday's actions. When one examines the recent history of these countries, one will find that the American government had direct and indirect influences on creating the conditions for the existence of some of these governments. This is especially true of the Taliban government of Afghanistan itself.

The New York Metropolitan Area has about 21,000,000 people or about 8 % of the U.S. population. Almost everyone in America knows someone who has been killed, injured or traumatized by the events of Tuesday. I know that I do. Many people are calling for "revenge" or "vengeance" and comments such as "kill them all" have been circulated on the TV, radio, and email. A few more potentially benign comments have called for "justice." This is only potentially benign since that term may be defined by people such as Bush and Colin Powell. Powell is an unrepentant participant in the Vietnam War, the terrorist contra war against Nicaragua, and the Gulf war, at each level becoming more responsible for the planning and execution of the policies.

Those affected, all of us, must do everything in our power to prevent a wider war and even greater atrocity, do everything possible to stop the genocide if it starts, and hold those responsible for their potential war crimes during and after the war. If there is a great war in 2001 and it is not catastrophic (a real possibility), the crimes of that war will be revisited upon the U.S. over the next generation. That is not some kind of religious prophecy or threat, it is merely a straightforward political analysis. If indeed it is Bin Laden, the world must not deal only with him as an individual criminal, but eliminate the conditions that create the injustices and war crimes that w ill inevitably lead to more of these types of attacks in the future. The phrase "No Justice, No Peace" is more than a slogan used in a march, it is an observable historical fact. It is time to end the horror.

http://monkeyfist.com/ChomskyArchive/misc/nuremberg_html

[Anonymous Poster]

The Lebanese Christian Phalangist militia was responsible for the massacres that occurred at the two Beirut-area refugee camps on September 16­17, 1982. Israeli troops allowed the Phalangists to enter Sabra and Shatila to root out terrorist cells believed located there. It had been estimated that there may have been up to 200 armed men in the camps working out of the countless bunkers built by the PLO over the years, and stocked with generous reserves of ammunition.

When Israeli soldiers ordered the Phalangists out, they found hundreds dead (estimates range from 460 according to the Lebanese police, to 700-800 calculated by Israeli intelligence). The dead, according to the Lebanese account, included 35 women and children. The rest were men: Palestinians, Lebanese, Pakistanis, Iranians, Syrians and Algerians. The killings came on top of an estimated 95,000 deaths that had occurred during the civil war in Lebanon from 1975-1982.

The killings were perpetrated to avenge the murders of Lebanese President Bashir Gemayel and 25 of his followers, killed in a bomb attack earlier that week.

Israel had allowed the Phalange to enter the camps as part of a plan to transfer authority to the Lebanese, and accepted responsibility for that decision. The Kahan Commission of Inquiry, formed by the Israeli government in response to public outrage and grief, found that Israel was indirectly responsible for not anticipating the possibility of Phalangist violence. Israel instituted the panel's recommendations, including the dismissal of Gen. Raful Eitan, the Army Chief of Staff. Defense Minister Ariel Sharon resigned.

The Kahan Commission, declared former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, was "a great tribute to Israeli democracy....There are very few governments in the world that one can imagine making such a public investigation of such a difficult and shameful episode."

Ironically, while 300,000 Israelis demonstrated in Israel to protest the killings, little or no reaction occurred in the Arab world. Outside the Middle East, a major international outcry against Israel erupted over the massacres. The Phalangists, who perpetrated the crime, were spared the brunt of the condemnations for it.

By contrast, few voices were raised in May 1985, when Muslim militiamen attacked the Shatila and Burj-el Barajneh Palestinian refugee camps. According to UN officials, 635 were killed and 2,500 wounded. During a two-year battle between the Syrian-backed Shiite Amal militia and the PLO, more than 2,000, including many civilians, were reportedly killed. No outcry was directed at the PLO or the Syrians and their allies over the slaughter. International reaction was also muted in October 1990 when Syrian forces overran Christian-controlled areas of Lebanon. In the eight-hour clash, 700 Christians were killed-the worst single battle of Lebanon's Civil War.

[Kevin]

First off, Che Guevara was a sick Communist who served under Fidel Castro. Posting your Liberal jibberish about "Bush is Bad!" proves that this man must be a hero to you. Oops!

Sorry, Fred Hampton, you forgot to mention the faults of other countries. America is so bad? What about Hitler's slaughter of 6,000,000 Jews? America was against that. What about Sadaam's torture of his own people (exactly where was it written that we condoned this?) and the money he funded to those parents whose children committed terrorists acts? We were against that. What about Yassir Arafat and his thug Palestinian terrorists that blew up school busses with Israeli children going to school on them, despite the fact that the US and Israel were pursuing peace? We were against that. What about communist North Korea trying to take over South Korea, and the similar war in Vietnam, where communism, an obviously failed type of government that has been proven a failure by the moral and economic fall of every country that adopts it, not to mention that communist countries are predominantly ruled by dictators and their military enforcement of the law? We were against that. What about terrorists that blew up a train in Spain? We were against that. What about insurgents trying to stop Iraqi people from having an election that would lead to a free Iraq, where the government would be based upon what the people wanted? We were against that. What about terrorists beheading innocent people from America, the UK, and other nations? We were against that.

And the rest of these countries that we supposedly 'victimized'? It seems to me facts are missing in a lot of those instances (I'll grant not all, we've made mistakes). Saying "The U.S. did something" and following up with "X number of people died" and leaving out any facts inbetween or the reason we went in is misleading your readers into believing that the US had no reason when they actually did and that a lot of the actions, if not done, would have led to even more deaths, suffering, and problems within that area.

Leftist comments like these are sad. You have to mislead people into trying to hate their own country just to get support? Lay down the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and suddenly you see these people for who they really are. You're the kind of person that buys Michael Moore's lies. You figure if something is said against someone you hate, then it has to be true, there is no point in researching it, and they should be hailed as a hero. Whereas people that support opposing views are demonized and looked down upon as you try to make fools of them and tear apart their foundation with your over-exaggerated 'facts'. That seems a lot like fascism to me. Tell me, are you a Fascist, Fred Hampton?

America is the greatest nation in the world. If it isn't, why do you have to try so hard to convince us it isn't? It should be quite simple. The truth is, we stand up against the terrorism and dictatorship that leads to the killings that you left out. For instance, North Korea is in horrible condition and people in the country are suffering thanks to Kim Jong-il, as people starve to death and the country produces nuclear weapons despite U.S. opposition. Nuclear weapons are bad, especially in the hands of a tyrant dictator like him, but you aren't pointing your finger at him, are you? Who is? We are. Who else? Hmm... let's see... South Korea is obviously against North Korea, considering they are very much anti-communist after the Korean War and they fear that they may be attacked. If they were, there's innocent people dying right there. Where's your crusade for them? Oh yeah, you don't care, because America was trying to help them.

Anyways, as I was saying in that example, who else cares? No one, really. Other countries talk about it, but nothing happens. We're the ones pointing the finger, we see the problems and we know it's got to be stopped before it happens. But that requires war, and war is oh-so bad. I mean, besides slavery, fascism, nazism and communism, war hasn't ever solved anything has it?
http://www.protestwarrior.com

And what about Iraq? You claim we found no WMD in Iraq. First off, us going into Iraq, if anything, SAVED millions from Sadaam's torturing and killing of his own people (as I said, where was this 'proof' that we condoned these actions? I thought the US struck Iraq repeatedly for these kinds of actions). Secondly, it isn't an "illegal war". The cease-fire was void when Sadaam broke the circumstances of it. Quoting from another excellent site by Tiberius:

"In 1991 a ceasefire (not a treaty) was agreed upon. The conditions for this ceasefire – among other things like the creation of a no fly zone – was that Iraq disarm “AND” (not “or” or “perhaps” or “maybe then” or “if they feel like it”) AND provide proof they have done so. Hostilities were to resume should ALL (not some or a few or most) ALL conditions not be fulfilled.

Given that no treaty had been signed in the following years and that there was no statute of limitations on the ceasefire agreement and thus it is still in effect and that clearly NOT ALL conditions had been met, how is the resumption of hostilities not legal?"
http://www.theasylum.iinet.net.au/

Just another one of the excellent examples of how you Leftists leave out the facts and try to mislead people against your enemies.

You see, America is trying to get rid of a lot of the scum you try to ignore. That is what makes this nation great: we will stop terrorism, tyranny, and oppression while everyone else turns a blind eye and/or tries to help the oppressors. And not only will we do this, we will do it without regards as to what anyone else thinks or says. We're killing terrorists and everyone else hates us for it? Why should we listen? If they said something logical and sensible, sure, I'll listen. Until then, I'll simply ignore your half-truths, misleading out-of-proportion 'facts', and your all-out lies.

And by the way, you can't justify 'no war ever', not simply because war does end problems, but also because if you don't fight back against these sins of the world, who will? If no one does, they'll just keep on oppressing their own people and building nuclear weapons, or training terrorists to kill innocent people. Not only will they go unresisted, but they'll probably get even worse. Sometimes, just sometimes, you have to fight back. And maybe just sometimes innocent people die, but who knows how many innocents could've lost their lives if terrorists weren't opposed after 9/11? They could've gotten braver. Who knows, maybe they'd have nuked a city. Multiple millions could've died, but then again, I guess it wouldn't matter to people like you because Americans died. It's ok if American innocents die because "BUSH IS BAD!", right?

The poem you posted wasn't that great. The post of the letter about the 'shocks and horrors' was obviously full of holes where the truth was omitted to make it seem worse. The post on Lebanon... Lebanon was a very unstable country back then, and it isn't very stable today. The middle east is like that. Hundreds, if not thousands die daily due to hatred and terrorism that runs rampant through the area. Another thing you failed to mention. Oh, and try posting something original. You seem to be quoting from a lot of different sites. I would hope you have an opinion of your own and that you are intelligent enough to voice it with a few of your own words.

You see, the difference between you and I is that I see SOME truth in what you say. I am not denying that the country has done things that aren't something to be proud of. However, you just won't see that there are MANY things that this country has done that people SHOULD be proud of. You have me, who will at least consider your views, and we have you, who won't even listen to mine. America is a much better country than you give it credit for, and it is the best. You've only tried to defame America's image, but you've failed in my eyes, and you have yet to point out any country that is better.

Regardless, I say that Che Guevara did in fact murder countless innocents. I don't see how shirts with his face on it can be such a fad today. He is only looked up to by Marxists and Communists. I would think that Burlington Coat Factory would have known this. (Come on, a shirt with nothing but a man's face becomes popular? Those kind of things should be researched, you know...) Stores like Burlington try to follow a lot of fads like lemmings to water. Either way, you can find much better clothing elsewhere.

I did like the picture, though. A guy with camo pants and a Che Guevara shirt? This guy is an obvious communist and belongs in that jail cell in the background. Maybe Burlington Coat Factory was trying to make a statement against commies? Probably not, but oh well.

Oh, and before I forget, Freddie the commenter: FOUR MORE YEARS!~ :)

[Garth]

Fuck Che. He is a commie asshole. Many people I know wear shirts with his dumbass scowling face on them. i say FUCK THEM. The guy was a terrorist.

[luis]

Oye cualquiera que haya escrito eso. No les da envidia?? de que un extranjero revolucionario que ya esta muerto les este haciendo lo mismo que ustedes han echo mucho tiempo y siguen haciendo explotando a los demás países dime por que les dan bala gusto a quienes no pueden darles guerra?? y sabes algo , Cuba es un ejemplo de superación u fuerza el único país que no permitido que Yankys entren a explotar a su gente y su tierra. y ahora yo pregunto que van a hacer los kankys al respecto??? no creo que pueden borrar o destruir las imagenes de el che o no podrán borrar su foto de todas las camisetas?? no lo creo pero si te digo una cosa que el che no fue una mala persona al contrario de eso el solo quería lo mejor para su pueblo y su gente.

PD. Y por cierto tu dices que el Che Guevara fue un Argentino asesino ??
Bueno escucha esto.
Siempre es mejor ser un Argentino asesina por liberar a su pueblo.
Que Un YANKY que asesina por petróleo. y si no entiendes te explico mejor.
Now that the war is “over,” people are starting to question its validity. Was it justified? Should we have acted as prematurely as we did? What consequences will ensue as a result of our actions? As far as I’m concerned, these are all questions that should have been asked a long time ago. Major combat has been declared over for quite some time, yet many troops are still dying each day simply because “Operation Iraqi Freedom” has become “Operation Iraqi Occupation.” Now that we are there for what may be a permanent residence “setting up the new Iraqi democracy,” the American people want to see some results. The war set out to solve a lot of problems in Iraq. The U.S. military wanted to oust Saddam Hussein. It wanted to weed out and destroy his regime’s “weapons of mass destruction.” And overall, it wanted to restore the Iraqi’s freedom. How successful was the U.S.? not very! we haven’t found any of these alleged “weapons”--only factories that may have had the ability but were manufacturing aspirin and antibiotics, NOT chemical or biological agents.

[Kalafan]

Che was a dangerous idiot who was also a poor judge of objective conditions. Whether or not he was a murderer is a nonissue, since EVERY faction in the long, sad history of mass movements ALWAYS has at least a few sadistic bastards who belong in state prisons. And Luis, a pox on you and everyone else here who decided that a conflict taking place close to half a century later on the other side of the planet is somehow relevant in our discussion of the capitalist glorification of an overrated Argentine political mercenary.

[Shane]

"Just another one of the excellent examples of how you Leftists leave out the facts and try to mislead people against your enemies."

My, my! This is the intelligent banter of one of our "god fearing" citizens? Perhaps you should back up a bit and read what you are going to post before actually doing so. This is the sort of mindless drivel that has inspired Nazis, K.K.K followers and White Supremacist's for years now. I would hope that a poster who is taking on someone of Larry Mosqueda's caliber can at least refrain from the total dunce mode.

[Shane]

"You see, America is trying to get rid of a lot of the scum you try to ignore. That is what makes this nation great: we will stop terrorism, tyranny, and oppression while everyone else turns a blind eye and/or tries to help the oppressors. And not only will we do this, we will do it without regards as to what anyone else thinks or says. We're killing terrorists and everyone else hates us for it? Why should we listen? If they said something logical and sensible, sure, I'll listen. Until then, I'll simply ignore your half-truths, misleading out-of-proportion 'facts', and your all-out lies."

If you do this long enough it will be impossible to know who is the terrorist and who isn't.

Someone who walks into a sovereign nation and takes it over killing over half a million of its people, that's a terrorist right? Pol Pot, Hitler, Bush?